Look its obvious now that I'm not gonna have a consistent post flow at this point in the year, but once the season starts up and there are actually races and more data to digest I imagine that the posts will begin to flow in the same way they had in the past seasons. If you don't want to believe in that I don't blame you, its been a rough month for posts.
But for now, although I don't have too much new to stay, I can at least try and fuel the fire which has been keeping this blog going. I'm going to throw out my thoughts on the O'Hara v. Henderson debate.
The only reason O'Hara isn't defending champions is depth. They didn't have a 6th man to step up and fill in when misfortune struck on course at which misfortune almost always strikes. So therefore the key in 2012 will be improving depth. The group peaked at the right time, knew how to run the states course and had plenty of talent. Those were not factors in the upset at states in 2012 and I'm sorry to say I strongly disagree with anyone who wants to argue that point.
The main reason Henderson isn't defending state champions is age. A lot of things come with age, not just wisdom and experience but also strength. I'm pretty sure Henderson is a program built on mileage and the older you get the more mileage you can handle and the more mileage you have handled in the past. That will certainly boost Henderson's young squad which still features mostly non seniors. And of course the whole "running poorly at states" thing should hopefully be thrown out the window. Henderson is well coached and they clearly have a bunch of talent. And perhaps their biggest strength is their depth ironically.
They have great depth, but if people try to tell me that their 8-14 guys could make states I'm going to upset. To make states out of District One you need a very, very solid squad. Last year 16:35 average per man got you to states. Henderson had 6 guys under 16:40 last year. I also feel like this is one of the deepest fields D1 has had in a while.
I think O'Hara has improved their depth. It looked like they had a solid amount of young guys in that 10 mile race. It doesn't mean much I know, but it is certainly a good sign. They picked up Smart and they had a freshman last year who broke 16 minutes and ran 17:24 at the states course in September so there is reason to believe their very young guys can be contributors in the 5-7 spot. That was what they were lacking last year. I'm a big Nick Smart fan. I think in the O'Hara system with training partners like he has, he can have a big season. However, he was in the 16:20s last year at Lehigh which would barely put him on the varsity squad for Henderson last year (if Chaborek had a solid day at Districts Smart probably would have been 8th on Henderson's roster).
O'Hara ran the pre-states meet this past year, usually a big no no in my book, but it clearly paid off. Besides James who ran 17:24 as mentioned above, their remaining 6 members of their top 7 dropped 213 seconds from Hershey to the state meet. So a total plus minus of 193 seconds when you count in James. Compare that to Mt. Lebanon, the 2nd place pre states team. 113 points through the 6 guys that ran varsity at both meets. O'Hara took advantage of the hilly courses and their hilly schedule which includes Belmont Plateau. PCL teams have always performed well at the state meet because of this schedule, LaSalle in the past few years has had crazy spreads and beat NA the year they made nationals and of course O'Hara the past two years has done very well as well.
Unfortunately we won't see much of Henderson's cards until later in the season. Their first real race was October 1st in New Jersey. They didn't run against PA competition until championship season.
On the track, I'll be honest, Henderson really dominated. Pitone had a good year, he has come on strong and the other O'Hara returners had solid years. I was pretty impressed with Savage's 3200m at States in brutal weather which is the small exception. Henderson meanwhile had guys showing serious improvements highlighted by Russell and Barchet but also including AJ Chaborek and Rimkis.
But O'Hara had a similar spring in 2011 and they came back better than ever in XC. So good sign for Henderson but not necessarily a bad sign for O'Hara.
So let's get to down to business here. Before the season starts, I'm going to give you my pick right now. In dual meet scoring here is how I see Henderson and O'Hara placing against one another at the end of the season. A lot can (and will) change in my thinking, but just so that my opinion is out there, here it goes.
24-31 O'Hara over Henderson
But I'm just one man. Comment away with your thoughts.
Remember Eric Stratman ran the 4:29 in the mile and 9:47 in the 3200. He had the biggest improvement in my book. Henderson seems like a very track oriented team, the only person that seems better at XC than track on their team is Barchet. The rest are still great, but when you compare their track times with other people in the state to their XC times with other people, their performances in track are definitely more impressive.
ReplyDeleteDon't forget that Barchet ran 9:29 after missing all fall with a tumor. That's better then 16:05. Either someone is a good runner or they're not. It shouldn't matter if it's roads, track or xc.
DeleteIt's not that simple, he ran a 16:05 freshman year... That would make him so much faster if he ran his sophomore year. You compared an end of the year sophomore time to a freshman year time. Of course the 9:29 would be better. (and he ran a 9:27 in the 3200) and to your last point, yes I know if someone is a beast at track they'll still be good at XC. But someone can be better at one than another. Barchet seems like an XC guy more than a track person even though he's still really good at track, but some guys are kind of even like Russell, ran a 4:18 mile and a 15:43 5k in XC. I can't tell which is better because both are really good times. But then you have Chaborek who ran a 4:22 mile and a 1:53.-- 800 split but had a 16:30 something 5k. There are differences.
DeleteI’ll start by saying this post will be good news for O’Hara because whenever I’ve disagreed with Etrain, he ended up right.
ReplyDeleteI think O’Hara missed their chance last year. I can’t see anyone in PA beating Henderson this year (or next). Runner for runner, Henderson returns at least a team equal to O'hara, probably slightly better and certainly deeper.
But their best asset is their youth. Most runners see their biggest improvements in their junior year. Henderson’s projected varsity has 5 juniors who already have impressive xc and track times, and could get much better this year. O’hara’s seniors are outstanding, but they may have topped out. James will be better and Smart should benefit from being on a top team, but that might not be enough. And unfortunately, O’Hara still can’t afford an injury or bad day out of their top five. Henderson’s depth is ridiculous, they can confidently move someone up from JV without missing a beat. I see Henderson winning States decisively.
Etrain how did u have everyone from both teams placing in this duel meet
ReplyDeleteHow can you throw up a dual meet score without breaking it down runner by runner? So, you have O'Hara going 1, 2, 5,7,9. It's probably going to be more like 27-28. O'Hara 1,4,5,8.9 with a lot of close places. Henderson is listed as going to Briarwood. Hopefully, both teams opt for the Championship Race. It would be a crime if they ran seperate races.
DeleteEtrain, how do you have Ohara one twoing Henderson? Dan, Barchet, and Russell are probably going to be decisively faster than the 4th and up guys. No one but Dan has shown faster times than those 2 this past track season, let alone close times. I know you don't agree that track counts for much when it comes to XC. Really the only difference is some hills and colder weather at the end of the year. I think track times are a very useful resource for predicting XC, it show's who improved and where people are at the longer distances like a 3200. What was Ohara's #2 guy's 3200 time? was it in the 9:30's? Because Henderson has a 9:27 guy and a 9:31 guy. Even Chaborek ran a 9:40 you can't discount things like that. I'm not saying you're opinion is wrong, I'd just like to know your reasoning because i'm confused.
Deleteif you read my comment i believe i told you that i do not have o'hara one-twoing henderson ... check it for yourself .. i have savage-barchet-russell etc.
Deletealso want to point out pitone's 3200m PR is 9:33, essentially time trialing with savage and billotta at D12s ... Chaborek is very fast, he has a lot of potential to run great in XC, but odds are his fast 3200m marks are more of a result of 4:22/1:53 speed more so than his 5k fitness ... but obviously i could be wrong here ... its still way too early to put too much stock in track
DeleteThe comment above etrains let's see pitone went 9:33 pastore went 9:40 and James went 9:40 as a freshman and all three of them are more Xc guys other than chaborek whose a track guy
DeleteLet's remember, we are high school kids! Youth is a Disadvantage. Any team with more seniors is in my opinion better off. Henderson should have a great year but next year will be better for them when they have more seniors on their varsity.
ReplyDeleteMost teams are OK as long as they have some senior leadership. Talent is talent. Both teams have good young guys and good senior leadership. Savage is a great leader. He brings the rest of his team to a different level in XC.
DeleteWhat? Ohara's seniors are good but here's a scenario. One team has a varsity of 8 seniors who average a lets sayy 16:40, then you have a team of juniors who average 16:25. The team with the juniors are better. Because they are faster. The soon to be Henderson juniors are, may I say, Fast as hell. They are younger and they will improve much more than Ohara's soon to be seniors. They are already about even, but Henderson's youth will improve greatly.
DeleteImprove to next year yes. I am talking about this year.
DeleteImprove to this year from last year is what I was saying. Henderson's upcoming juniors are going to show much greater improvement than Ohara's seniors. I also don't really believe in "senior leadership" yes, the new guys don't know much and they learn from the kids who have been there and done that. But the key to success comes from the coach. Now let's talk about coaches, Coach Kelly know's what he's doing. He isn't just getting lucky with his athletes, he has so many great runners, even JV guys who would be varsity on any other team because he's arguably the best in the state. Now, I think Henderson is going to pull out the win because they have a better coach and and a better program.
Deletealso senior leadership doesnt mean that the seniors have to be the best on the team. Savage could be completely cocky and a terrible leader. everyone is basing the fact that he is the leader of the team on his times. On my team the leaders were usually the guys with the best balance of work and play. they were always the funniest guys on the team but they always knew when to put the work first and how to improve. that is real leadership, not just some stud runner. Chaborek and Rimkis may not be the best guys on Henderson but they will still know how to lead the team that they have been on for the past three years.
DeleteObviously you've never met Dan savage because he's the exact opposite of cocky and a great leader so nice try
DeleteSenior leadership is a myth. Some guys perform well in Championship season, and some guys don't. It doesn't matter what grade they're in, and it certainly doesn't matter if they have a senior from their squad running in front of them. Graduating Class is but a number, and IMO it's not one that means very much in cross country.
DeleteSeniors in Top 7 on State Championship Team Since 2003
Delete2003- Top 3, 5 of Top 7
2004- 1, 3, 4, 6, 7
2005- 1, 2, 7
2006- Entire Top 5 (That team went on to be National Champs)
2007- 1, 3
2008- 3, 4, 5, 6
2009- 1, 2, 4
2010- 1, 7
2011- 2, 3
Its not unheard of for a non senior dominated team to win, but I think people overlook the power of seniors. Senior year is each of these runners last chance ever to win a state championship. It is the last XC race most of them will ever run. Drew Magaha realized his senior year was his last chance to excel at XC, he picked it up a notch. Ryan Gil fought through injury because it was his lost shot to grab state gold and he pulled out state double gold. If its all about talent I believe we would see more freshman and sophomores running top marks at the state championships than we do now on the AAA level. If anything age matters more in cross country than track. In cross country experience and mental attitude are much more important factors.
Henderson underclassman already have the experience of most seniors.
DeleteEh etrain, i don't agree with the the age vs talent part. The only reason Seniors are historically faster is because they have an entire year of training over everyone else. But if you have really really fast juniors matched with just fast seniors then the juniors would win. I'm not saying that Henderson is going to win, though I predict the will, all i have are guesses so far. I'd say Victory is 90% talent, 10% motivation and willpower. If Henderson has better runners, no matter what the age, then in a perfect world they would win. Same thing for Ohara. If Ohara wins, it's because they had faster runners for that year, not because they had more seniors (as in seniors have more motivation), it's because their runners were better (in this case because they have an entire year over most of Henderson). If Henderson wins then it would be because their runners were able to achieve that level because their talent exceeds ohara's. Junior year shouldn't be considered young anymore. These kids know what's up, Henderson has the most talented team by far because they made it to Ohara's level a year early, now they'll also have the benefit of everyone having experience.
DeleteI would have it
ReplyDelete1)savage
2)pitone
3)Russell
4)barchett
5)James
6pastore
7)rimkis
8)smart
9)stratman
10)haugh
That's what I would have it at
I'd have it;
ReplyDelete1) Barchett
2) Russell
3) Savage
4) Haugh
5) Chaborek
6) Pitone
7) Stratman
8) Collins
9) Smart
10)James
I'd have it
ReplyDelete1)savage
2)barchett
3)Russell
4)pitone
5)James
6)rimkis
7)pastore
8)chaborek
9)smart
10)haugh
Haugh ran a 15:58 his sophomore year. Smart will never beat him this year. Does everyone expect his legs to snap in half or something, I understand Haugh was gone all of indoor. But Barchet was out all of XC. Barchet did great in track 2 seasons later, why won't Haugh do well in XC? The one I agree with the most is yours but haugh definitely needs to be up ahead of smart.
DeleteHaugh is currently out and isn't running at briarwood this weekend
Deletemine is closed to the post above me, but at this point its hard to name names decisively, depends on who stays healthy and who responds to the training ... i've got something along the lines of savage, barchet, russell, pitone, haugh, pastore, smart, rimkis, stratman, james ... if the #s don't add up my bad... worth noting: look at the coatesville national championship squad of 2006 ... in 2005 the team was literally all juniors and huge favorites for state gold, but faded and finished 4th ... the 1st place team that year, west chester east, had two seniors leading the group and then 4 underclassmen following suit ... the young guns are great assets but seniors tend to be more consistent on the big stage ... it certainly isnt always the case but if i were a betting man i'll take the seniors over the juniors ... which i think i just did in my above post ...
ReplyDeleteHenderson has two seniors for varsity leadership, just like North Penn last year and WC East on 2005. And both Chaborek and Rimkis also bring State Championship experience as they were each on the 2009 Henderson Team.
ReplyDeleteThis year’s Henderson underclassman have more experience than most seniors on top teams. All but one of this year’s varsity will have run States at least once. They’ve all had tremendous success at ChesMonts and Districts in varsity and JV races. They all have a little something to prove after last year’s disappointments at States, which can be chalked up to inexperience as Sophs.
Having made those points…Etrain has consistently known better than me, so it probably will be O’Hara this year. It looks like they’re going to square off at Briarwood in September so we should get an early glimpse in about a month.
Alot of people have been talking about O'hara not peaking at the right point last season. Henderson didn't do it that well either if you look at it. Henderson easily won the District 1 meet by approx 50 points(please correct me if wrong, however I know they were the only team under 100). Then at states, after a 70point hammering of NP the week before, loses and places 5th. Not 2nd, or 3rd; 5th! And then if you rescore excluding last years seniors, O'hara does not lose a top 5 member, Henderson loses 2.
ReplyDeleteThis in no way means that Henderson will not be the team to beat come Nov 3rd, but O'hara has to be considered the preseason favorite.
Henderson doesn't really lose any top 5 runners. It went Russell, to Haugh, to Collins, to Rimkis, to Grab (when it comes to their pr's). But barchet is back so the team is going to be even better. So really, with Barchet back the top 5 is what it should have been last year. The other senior, Salach, was never a part of the Henderson top 5 in 2011.
DeleteSalach ran 4th on the States course with Grab(who PIAA said was a senior) 5th.
DeleteThats what I saw, only looked at states results.
Billotta is listed as a Junior, but he was a senior last year, he has graduated and moved on ... so they lose one member of their top 5
DeleteSorry, I'm a district 3 guy, so we don't see too much of O'hara. Does change the dynamic a bit though.
DeleteI think some are undervaluing Collins. He'll be very solid this year and I wouldn't be surprised to see him dip under 16 this year
ReplyDeletegreat point, its the advantage henderson has, this guy is one of the top 20 or so guys in D1 last year for XC and i think this is his first mention in any of the three posts about this topic ... very good point ... its what makes henderson so good, they can hit you in so many ways
DeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeletehaha Troll, you're funny... Now stfu, you got your attention
DeleteSeriously people are still doing this? This is the first time I have been on the blog in months and this if the first thing I see. All I have to say is wow.
ReplyDeleteBrendan Shearn
I wanna hear some non bias opinions on this topic
ReplyDeletethe teams are too close to give a non bias opinion. yeah, ohara on paper is a tad bit faster because they finally got a good #5 guy. But Henderson's program is amazing and they always drop ridiculous amounts of time. Henderson USED to have a record of messing up at states like all 3 times last year. But what do you expect out of sophomores. They made up the whole varsity pretty much. But Ohara's Dan savage got 4th at states when Henderson's first guy only got 27th. That's the least amount of bias I could possibly give you, I still think Henderson is going to do it. The teams are practically even already but their program is much better.
DeleteHenderson's team was all sophomores but last year O'Hara only had one scoring senior. The Henderson guys had an off day because for most of them they hadn't been to XC states. Same with James from O'Hara. Both teams will have great experience from last years state meet and that's it. I don't know how people can say because Henderson is younger they are better. They both are good enough to hold their own.
DeleteO'hara's biggest problem could possibly come the week before. Let's not forget the La Salle could pack a real punch at District 12 Championship and with a O'hara runner losing a shoe, tripping, or pulling up lame loses the meet, and misses a trip to states. Henderson can mess up and still finish top 5 in District 1 pretty easily.
DeleteYeah, I don't really expect them being younger to help them out all that much. I just think Henderson has the upper hand because they have a better program. Excuse my nerdyness but to the zelda fans out there this match-up reminds me of having to fight your shadow. It's like the same team with different names. It's going to be really close the entire season.
DeleteSeeing that Ohara is favorited to make it, shame on whoever made the decision to only let one team from district 12 go to states. La Salle is probably the team who would've gotten third at states and they're getting cheated out of a state medal, It disgusts me.
DeleteO'Hara clearly has a top-notch program and any team led by Savage is going to be formidable.
DeleteThat being said, Henderson's depth is astounding. Yeah, only 5 guys are being scored, but having a strong 6-7 (and even beyond), is what often separates state champs from the rest.
Beyond that, I feel that O'Hara will be depending too much on Smart, who seems to be more of an 800 runner than a cross-country type. He's a great pick-up (being a private school must be nice), and clearly a very good runner. I am just unsure whether he can battle with Henderson's 4-5 men, whoever they may be. That's where I think Henderson has the advantage. Unless Smart races perfectly at the perfect time, Henderson could get 6 or 7 in before O'Hara gets 5.
Though O'Hara will have a great team, and could certainly prove me wrong and capture the state title, I'm going to take Henderson. I know O'Hara's team is a class act, and I'm guessing Henderson's group is the same. They'd both be worthy champions.
Finally, let's not forget about the other couple hundred teams in boys' AAA. I'm sure they're putting in some miles, too. Excited to see things really heat up in less than a month. Good luck to all.
Only two teams medal at states, so unless LaSalle beat O'Hara or Henderson they wouldn't be getting a medal at states as a team anyway. Doesn't make the situation any more bareable if you are a lasalle fan.
DeleteSmart is much more of an XC guy than track guy no offense. 16:26 sophomore 5k at Lehigh is much better in my opinion 4:36 and 1:59. Most guys who can run 1:59 can't touch 16:20s, especially if they are more speed guys than endurance guys. Hong Cho ran 1:50 and he was like 16:20s-16:30s in XC the fall before. He was a track guy.
Wrong train, third place team gets medals mailed to them.
DeleteWatch out for Rimkis, definitely Henderson's dark horse, expect a big season from him
ReplyDeleteYou are all wrong. the real battle for the state championship is between north allegheny and kiski area.
ReplyDeleteHow is it between them maybe wpial but not states
Delete16:35 average at Districts is not unreasonable for Henderson's JV. Barchet, Khattabi, Waltz, Moy and Drapp all project to be JV, have run low 17's last year, have broken 4:45 in the 1600, and will be improving as they try to make the varsity squad.
ReplyDeleteBarchet as in Gordon, Reiny's younger brother, for those of you who are confused. And sadly Khattabi moved away so he won't be apart of the team anymore.
Delete-Henderson runner
Too bad Khattabi moved. However, there will surely be a crop of freshmen who take to the Henderson training or a stud recruited off of the soccer team. They'll win D1 varsity and JV is dominating fashion.....again.
DeleteDrapp also won't be running
ReplyDeleteWow still beating distrct 1 drum.......
ReplyDeletenothing else is new
DeleteHe could finish up the xc talks for those top 10 teams
DeleteO'Hara is district 12.
DeleteTough not to beat the district 1 drum. D1 will probably take 4 of the top 5 places at States this year; Henderson, Council Rock, Great Valley and North Penn.
DeleteKiski Area from D7 returns a nice team, they could be a top 5 threat.
DeleteIf lasalle gets the next 5 individuals at the D12 meet thy can run as team and will get third
DeleteHow many individuals does D1 and D12 send? Is it 25 for D1 and 5 for D12?
DeleteYea it is very unfortunate for D12 because they are consistently one of the top 4 districts in the state.
DeleteNo love for Cumberland valley? The return everyone and were 4th in etrain's prediction
Deletelet's just lay this down now. If Etrain hasn't done all 10 of the team listings yet, it's not going to happen nor do I want it to happen. It would only be fluff posts that wouldn't get many views. That's why he's putting up these posts as debates to see what people are thinking (<-correct me if I'm wrong Etrain) Remember the pop quiz thing back in july? he's making posts on each one. Sooo I would predict the next post he'll do is about Russell or Barchet being better. He's gone in order so far. A post like that would get his site a lot of views because people would go on and post their opinions like we are now, and then others would open his page and read them. Him "beating the D1 drum" is what is keeping him relevant right now. His opinions and predictions are great and he realllyyy know's what he's talking about. But if I knew everything about carrots and told you about it, they wouldn't be any more interesting. Just like the last few teams in the top 10 prediction, harsh but true.
DeleteEtrain, you've discussed the AAA championship alot, how about a little for AA and A.
ReplyDeletei know everyone is on the XC train now, but if you checked penntrack Wellington Zaza has moved to Garnet Valley. What does this mean for Strath haven who loses Chris Williams and other members of their 4x4? And, does this make Garnet Valley a state contender with only Wellz out front? This just shook up things a little bit on the track. To give you a perspective, the top 4 in track were:
ReplyDeleteStrath Haven- only returns one big name in Huemmler
Penn Wood- loses Futch and brings virtually no big names back
Milton Hershey- i think they bring back their state champ in high jump and lose one other big name
Coalico- all points basically by Kyle Felpel (thrower) who graduated.
Just something to keep in the back of your minds. but till then, its xc time baby
How does O'hara end up with Nick Smart? Did they just decide to go to a private school when a jr in high school. And how does Henderson get Haugh. There's three public high schools in W.Chester and another four or five within 10 miles? Is it just coincidence?
ReplyDeleteYes it is a coincidence. Now lets cut this out. I feel that your implying Haugh was offered something to run for Henderson. Henderson, i can tell you, did absolutely not offer Haugh anything to go there. Im friends with him and I can tell you he did not appreciate that rumor spreading around last time. It might be different with schools like O'Hara and LaSalle because they can offer money to student athletes. So with Smart, i dont know what happens. However, in the mean time, we should stop assuming what happened and figure out on our own. I apologize in advance if that is not what your implying but it sure seems like it.
DeleteNo, I was not implying that Haugh was offered something. I guess my wording was bad but I was actually trying to avoid that because it would be a ridiculous assertion. A public high school xc program cannot offer something for a runner. And though Hough is an outstanding runner who would improve any team, Henderson would still be a great team without him. Finally, Henderson is a top team year in and year out, due to the coaching, hard work of the teams, alumni support and tradition.
DeleteI actually thought it might be the other way, that the athletes and/or their parents wanted them to participate in a top program and the transfers were based on that, and not just a coincidence that the two top teams each ended up top runner transfer. Those odds are pretty long.
Sorry. I didn't know there was a previous rumor and I'm not trying to start one. If this question is inappropriate, ETRAIN, PLEASE DELETE.
Ohara can't offer money out because their a catholic school and not private so smart transferred over on his own with out any money offered to him just wanted a better program then GV
ReplyDeleteReally O'Hara offered him money? Come on now, It's high school sports and plus O'Hara can't even afford a track right now....
ReplyDeleteHe never said they offered him money, he said that it was possible. Really, what I think happened, is just that Nick wanted to be on a better team. So since Ohara is a private school, he was able to easily transfer without having to move or anything. Cardinal O'hara high school is only approximately 20 minutes away from Garnet Valley. I mapped it out just to see if he had to move or something to go to that school. I guess his parents found that it was worth paying for their son to go to a private school because it was better at sports. I doubt they would move him in his junior year for academics only.
DeleteFunny thing is Ohara didn't offer him money he transferred on his own
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteIn most cases I wouldn't comment on a post that involves me or my team, and in almost all cases it never turns out well when someone does do that, but i'll take that risk anyway. I speak on behalf of the Henderson XC team, and even the O'Hara XC team when I say these posts about our school's recruiting an athlete to run for us are becoming a bit out of hand. I thought it was over after last XC season. Now to answer the question of "how we got Haugh". His dad holds a certain position at at a certain job, which I don't have the right to say because it's not my dad and it isn't relevant anyway. But he was transferred from the Hatboro area to the West Chester area. Yes, Sam could've gone to Rustin or WC east or another High school close by but his parent's chose this location. For what reason? I have no clue. It wasn't Sam's choice in any way. I'm pretty sure he'd much rather be living in Horsham and be with all of the people he grew up with. Kid's having to get moved from place to place is very common. Fun fact, I moved to West Chester after 8th grade. I lived in State College all of my life and I love it and miss it (shout out to Will Cather and the SC XC team). My mother got a job at West Chester University, you don't know how angry I was when my parents told me we were moving away. Changing schools isn't something that many people want to go through. I don't regret moving because it's opened up a lot of doors for me. I got lucky when I moved, and the Henderson XC team got lucky when Sam moved because he's really good. But no one is recruiting anyone from either school. I know people love controversy and stuff like that but my team, and the O'hara team have never done anything to deserve a reputation like that. Now it's time to stop this permanently, please.
Deleteamen tony. good luck this season. i hope you can help lead your team to a gold.
Deleteand if I may add, I do not know why Nick Smart transferred to O'hara nor will I claim to know why. But, if it was simply because he wanted to be on a better team to make himself a better runner, then I would absolutely and totally support his decision. Him being on the Ohara XC team is going to make him a much better runner. I remember he and his older brother trained with our team last summer purely because they wanted to be better, not because they had to. I can't even begin to explain how impressive that is to me so my hat is off to you sir. Him being on the O'hara squad is only going to make me and my teammates train harder and become better athletes so I have no complaints.
Deletewow now i understand why ohara is always so good......
ReplyDeleteMost of O'Hara isn't transfers, they are mostly Philadelphia CYO kids who went to a Catholic gradeschool.
ReplyDeletejust let the kids run! you can name and the stats and scenarios you want but it's all about what happens on November 1st on the state course, not about what happened in past years or on the track. both teams are hardworking and will contend in a major way for the title but leave it to them everyone stop taking sides and just appreciate that we get to see such a great battle for the title. I am greatly looking forward to November 1st that's where teams make history not by being talked about on a blog, but by running a gutsy race for the state title.
ReplyDeleteperfectly said^
DeleteOk so this is something that has been bothering me for quite some time and I really want to know what you guys think. I was wondering if being on a very competitive team can hurt you at some point, moreso if you are not the number one. I believe this because I think that most of these runners on these teams are more focused on the team goals then their own individual goals. In track this isn't a problem as the situtation is a lot different, but in XC I think that most of the runners would race more conservatively rather then try to win the race. For example say you are Pastore from Ohara and say with a mile to go you are side by side with savage. Your feeling great and if you move you could win the race, but your worried that if you move now you could also die hard a drop a bunch of places or possibly lead a Henderson runner to the win. I could see runners rationalizing well I'm our number 3 guy I might as well stay here because it would help our team a lot, whereas a runner who is running just for them selves would jump on that chance and try to win. Basically what my question is, do you think the 2-7 guys on a very good team would do better on a less competitive team where they are only racing as individuals. I hope this didn't offend anyone or was a really stupid question or something but you guys have to remember I come from a team where my second runner may not even break 20. I'd really like to know what people from these big teams think. Thanks!
ReplyDeleteBrendan Shearn
nah, it helps keep your ego in check
DeleteFirst of all, I think every runner on all these big teams want to do what is best for their team. No doubt about it. But, when you have a team that is 10-12 deep, each guy is going to be fighting his own teammates just as much the opponents, because they know that for each runner they beat, the better shot they have at running varsity.
DeleteSecond, ever single runner is different, regardless of team. One runner may be more motivated to do better than others.
Third, these 2-7 guys train hard together everyday, push each other in workout and have a secondary motivation to give it there all.
So I guess to give you a straight up answer, I do not believe that being on a large team hurts a runner, in most cases it probably helps.
I will give one disclaimer to this comment though. If the coach of one of these large teams becomes too worried about team goals and stops worrying about his runners, he could overtrain his team and cause some injuries. Also, some great high school runners have horrible post-hs careers because they tried to put in 100-mile weeks to go after a team title, and then can't raise their training intensity in college.
I'm not sure if you can relate to this Brendan but its similar to being on a relay. Everyone tends to give more because they are fighting for the team as well as themselves. That's just my experience but obviously I come from a big school that is completely different from yours.
ReplyDelete- Alec Kunzweiler